*** THE CANNIBAL MARINA ***

[The original northen boy]

Is there a danger that the MK1 Marina will consume all other variants of the range?

As i'm sure you're all aware the MK1 Marina seems to be the model held in the highest esteem,by most devotees to the car and by the same standard the poor Ital is the least liked.What i find a worrying trend is that the MK1 is using the other Marina's and ital's as a viable parts sources and indeed cannibalising these cars for it's own well being.

Good and very savable cars are being bought and their parts stripped off them to become donor parts for MK1's,i know personally of two Ital's and a MK3 that have been cannibalised in such a manner in the last six weeks in two case to be only stockpiled spares for MK1 cars,that my be needed someday but rather than attempt minimum restoration on them they are broken,or new buyers buy them for that purpose,simply to break to feed their MK1's.

If this practice carries on at the rate it is at the moment only a hand full of non MK1 cars will survive,the Mk2 fairs only slightly better,then the Mk3 after that,but for the Ital i can see every one as MK1 fodder,or salvage replacement for The Minor.

By all means enjoy the MK1 Marina,but please don't kill off any more of the other good cars to do this,there's really not that many left of them,and before you do decided to strip that Ital,just have a drive at it,you will be pleasantly surprised as to how good they really are.

Russ

Beckett Bros "i don't care it's a Mk3" :roll:

[ayrshirelad32]

Totally agree Russ but i said something similar a while ago that Itals and MK3s were being broken and one off these days there aint gonna be any more Mk3s or Itals left to break.What is going to be used as a source off spares when all the Tallys and Mk3s have been broken or at least the ones that arent in loving owners care.Will Mk2s then be broken,Worth thining about.There wasnt that many to being with Tallys and Mk3s compared to Mk1s i mean.

[JoshWard]

We give minor owners a bollocking but destroying Itals and MK3s is doing the exact same thing as what they do.

[ado28]

It's a sad thing to say but in reality the cars are worth more money when they are stripped. Recent sales on fleabay on A series engines has proved this theory correct. The other question is: how far gone does a car have to be to be broken? One mans idea of a scrapper may not be the other mans and you only have to look at some of the basket cases Uncle Frank takes on and turns into shiny new pins again!

[Clan Chieftain]

How many Itals has Uncle Frank totally rebuilt.......or anyone else for that matter, and if you are going to restore an ital the only donor is another ital.

[Alan The Exocet]

There used to be an Ital estate car,two doors down from where i used to live,the car was in really good condition on a W plate and had only 16,000 on the clock the inside was mint,it was an MOT failure on brakes,brake pipes,and some welding to one of the sills,a garage had quoted the bloke who owned it £170 all in to do the work with 12 months test.I offered to buy the car if the owner wanted to sell it,but he told me,that he was going to break it and sell the parts on e-bay as on a good day the engine would do that on it's own.

Although i tried my best the guy would have none of it,and he broke the car for from what i could see was for a engine and gear box,and sold the shell for scrap.he even got some money for the cars stereo.

Alan

[The original northen boy]

The poor old Ital 1.3 can be such a sought after car but often for the wrong reasons,not because it's an Ital but because it has possibly the best of all the Marina/Ital engines (and maybe even the best Leyland engine ever "A"+ engine) and the later cars had the telescopic conversion fitted as standard (all Ital vans and pick-ups had them from new) the Ital's had extra sound proofing that simply transfers to any other marina.This makes the car sought after by 1300cc Marina owners as a direct engine replacement (not just the MK1 owners) and the Morris Minor enthusiasts,as even a preference over the other 1300cc models,this is fueled often by the Flea-Bay factor "i'll break it and make a profit by selling the bits on here"

The Ital is so often seen only as a donor car,because it can supply these items,sadly the Ital was the worst of the rage when it came to build quality,and the cars don't fair as well from the ravages of rust as the other cars in the range,so perhaps to bring a Ital up to standard the work is harder because often there is more to do on one,and because of this and the donor aspect of the car they are broken,without a thought of saving them.

The MK3 has a better chance of survival because it doesn't have these items,but again they are broken because they are MK3's and not seen as desirable as the earlier MK1 models.

I find this a worrying trend,with the cars low numbers to start with,perhaps if more parts were available this would save many more cars,as spares could be bought new a thus eliminating the need for one car to cannibalize another for it's survival

Well where will it all end i ask? after the Ital's have gone, we start on the Marina MK3 then after we have disposed of them and then were onto the MK2 and after that all the MK1's that aren't T.C 1800's or Jubilees and then all the remaining cars that aren't Mumfords,ok so this is stretching a point but you can see the progression can't you.

Russ

Beckett Bros "thunderbolts of lightning very very frighting" :roll:

[Uncle Frank]

:? It`s a tough one this, everyone has aired a very valid point on this subject, BUT at the end of the day people will restore the car they prefer, this applies to many models not just BL either, look how many mk2 Escorts survive compared to mk1`s, same with Cortinas, Mini`s, MGB`s (nobody loves the rubber bumper ones), in my humble opinion the mark one Marina was the best looking car as it was the original design as it was intended, the thin bumpers with no clutter on the sides, the smooth dash with clear dials and no fussy plastic bits, However the mark 2 and 3 were no doubt better handling cars with various refinements that matched the competition at the time, and of all the cars the Ital was probably the nicest to drive as far as handling and noise levels were concerned.
This is all very well but as you will probably all agree the love of a Marina model is a personal thing, we all prefer the model we have (or we wouldn`t have them!), so to say it is wrong to restore a certain model because you prefer the other is just daft because it is not your car...if you want to save an Ital or a mk3 get off your arse and save one !,
Larry you are quite right, i have not restored an Ital yet because nobody has ever asked me to, although i have done a couple of mk3`s and a mk2 in the past, and of course i`m currently restoring a mk2 1300.
After all is said and done, we must all save the cars we like, whatever mark they are, i personally have 5 mk 1`s and i love em all!

[Alan The Exocet]

I think there is a difference with the Marina range to many other car models,with such cars as the Ford Escort or Ford Cortina,these cars were made in different mk's like the Marina, but with the Escorts and the Cortinas the all the models up to the Mk 4 of each car all looked different.All the Marinas more or less look the same,the Ital is the only one that's a little different but you can tell it's evolved from a Marina,but could you tell from what car the mk3 Escort developed from? just to add to my point all the Marina doors are the same,all the bonnets,all the boots,wings and bodywork work and so on but not with the Cortina or the Escort are all different.
Because there is so little difference between the models,i find it strange that one model seem to be favoured head and shoulders over the rest,when on the face of it the other cars are better handling and have better interiors.I have only driven two Marinas/Ital one was a Mk1 tc saloon and the other a 1.3 Ital saloon,the Ital was loads better the tc was a dog in comparison,it was smother faster and loads better inside and easier to drive,but no one wants them WHY?
i think whats happening is that the other cars are over looked because for some reason the mk1 cars are wrongly thought to be better,and all This cannibalising just adds to the problem and people think because others do it it's got to be right,to scrap one car to save another,or not bothered in buying a Marina or Ital if it's not a Mk1.Sorry i don't want to rock the boat but would there have been as much trouble if the car on Top Gear that was wrote off had been a Marina Mk3 or a Ital?

Alan

[Uncle Frank]

You make some fair points there Alan but some are a bit inaccurate, not all the panels are the same on the Marina range, they may well go in the holes and fit BUT no one would really want to fit later doors to a mk1 because that would mean changing all the interior handles, trim and latch positions for it to look right, then you have the holes in the doors to deal with (from the side mouldings mk2`s) or the lack of quarterlights on the mk3 with the bigger dropglass.
The bonnets on mk3 and Ital models have washer jet holes in them, bootlocks don`t fit...i could go on, your comparison between an early TC and a late 1300 is a world apart in both handling and age, a fairer test would be between a nice 1300 super mk1 and a mk3 1300L .
The second car that Top Gear destroyed was in fact a Mk2...and yes we did make a fuss about that one too, it would have made no difference to me if it was a mk1/2/3 or Ital, the reason we made a fuss was the fact that it was a Marina,
NOT that it was a Mk1.
The true reason in my opinion,( having worked on 100`s of them) that the mk1 is still around in larger numbers is the fact that they were better built, BL was still a relatively new company then and the workers still had a little pride in what they were doing, by the time the mk2 came along Red Robbo was in full swing and the quality of the cars took a nose dive,
I have owned all variants of Marina over the years and have always found the mk1 to be in better condition bodywise than its` later siblings, simple but true i`m afraid.
Don`t get me wrong, i like mk2`s and 3`s i have owned several really nice ones but i was always fighting the rust on them far more than i had to on the mk1`s.
At the end of the day we all choose the model we like, that is why there are so many different ones to choose from, i like mk1`s Russ likes Mk3`s others prefer mk2`s or Itals, it really doesn`t matter as long as we keep em going

[Clan Chieftain]

I must agree with you there Frank. The Mk1 is by far the best. Take 5055 as an example. 36 years old before it needed any panels. They could probably have been repaired but I had the panels so they were all changed. It is still all original underneath because it was undersealed from new. I have had a few Itals as well. Whilst they do handle much better I have always thought it is down to the colour of them. Champagne Beige in my opinion looks awful but I would have the maroon one with the black vinyl roof any day. But a good Mk1 saloon would get my vote.

[The original northen boy]

Alan,shame on you,don't you go upsetting my mate Frank,i'm very diapointed in your Marina Knowledge as well and please don't go and refer to any Marina as a dog!

Now as Frank says the Mk1 Marina is atad better made than the other modles (slightly better grade steel and maybe a few thou thicker) and although the interior is not to my liking they are of a better build than the later cars.now as Frank mentioned I'm a MK3 man (and of course the creame de la creame is the pick-up ) I seem to harbour a notion that when it comes down to build quality the pick-up is the best (look at the people the vehicle was aimed at builders,property repairs to name but two and the jobs it was intended to do and for something that sold in low number look how many survive today)

I also think a large player in the car survival stakes is down to the area the cars have spent their lives in,more so than to mark designation if it's the policy of the local County council via their highway department to use salt in with their grit for winter road use,Southern cars are more likely to be in a better condition than their counter parts simply because of the limited use of salt on southern roads.

Russ

Beckett Bros "un-salted" :roll:

[Alan The Exocet]

Sorry if i'm rocking the boat Frank i had no wish to do that and as you can see i have made some general assumptions that all Marina's are the same and now i know there not,but can you tell me why all the models are not like the same,say a quarter mk1 a quarter mk2 and so,it seem to me that the only thing the mk1 has going for it is numbers,when even owners say they don't handle as well as the other models and have vinyl seats.5055 Say's that his car is 36 years old and has now only needed panels,i think as Russ said earlier it's not all about the build quality just the amount of salt that's been exposed to the car I think it's got very very little to do with it,5055 is registered in Dudley and might have spent its life around there and chances are the amount of salt on the roads there is less than farther north.
What amount of surviving cars come from the south,i have been looking through the Morris Marina Owners site and the stuff on You Tube and the picture and videos on there all the car in them seem to be from the south according to their registrations.so i'm not convinced by the build quality argument,i think survival is down to post code,i know you have repaired loads of them over the years but were the southern cars really the best one weather they were a Mk1 or not?

oncee again only asking

alan

[marinast]

Sadly most of the damage done to Marina numbers over the last 25 years or so has been from Minor/MGB owners looking for cheap engines and a few other bits. The 18/22 Princess suffered from having a couple of desirable parts to offer others, its front calipers have no doubt claimed many which were perhaps in good useable/savable condition. There is also a problem with Metros being broken for engines by Mini owners so the Marina is not alone here.
The Mk1 Marina is the most sought after version, partly because of the free tax issue, but also because it has the most period charm.

[Clan Chieftain]

You are bang on Alan about the survival rate being better if the car is from down south. The majority of cars up here came from down south anyway. Only 3 that I know of came from up here. You never see any on ebay from here unless one of us puts it on.