1300 A Series Engine

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Mandator
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1300 A Series Engine

Post by Mandator » Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:07 pm

As pointed out in "what did you do to your Marina today" topic, the engine in my Marina is using oil, and it appears a lot!
Having tested the cylinder pressures they are reading from 95psi to 115psi. This seems low and I have been told they should be in the region of 150psi.
Can anyone confirm?
Squirted oil into each cylinder and there was a rise in two which also indicates possible worn valve guides.
What is the next step? Advice welcome.
As a temporary measure have applied "Stop Smoke" to the oil but realise a more professional solution is required.
If an engine overhaul/rebuild is required any advice on reliable companies welcome.

david painter
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by david painter » Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:25 am

A good healthy A Series engine will make 175psi with throttle wide opening while cranking and a battery that hold 10 volts, so you get a decent cranking speed. Adding oil to increase compression is an indication of worn bores / piston rings this can be confirmed by carrying out a cylinder leakage test I aim to look to a maximum of 35% leakage a good engine will be in region of 10% Air escaping into crankcase can be heard by removing oil filler cap past inlet valve in carburettor intake past exhaust valve at tail pipe and cylinder to cylinder head gasket in adjoining plug hole. Head gasket to colling system by bubbling in radiator
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JoshWard
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by JoshWard » Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:31 am

The bores in an A series tend to be very long-lived, often a new set of rings is all that is needed. It's a fairly straightforward job- head off, sump off and pistons out. Scholar Engines on the A140 or Seager Engineering in Debenham will be the people to take it to if you don't fancy tackling it yourself.
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The Breaker
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by The Breaker » Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:33 pm

I would just go for another cylinder head, weather its your referbed by a specilist or you get a second hand replacement

Mandator
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by Mandator » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:19 pm

At the moment will probably just live with an Ol' Smokey and keep topping up.
Come the New Year, aka when I have some money, will prob. go for a rebuild - will at the same time have head converted to unleaded!

Mandator
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by Mandator » Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:09 pm

Taking a bit of advise it looks like an overhaul is required.
Talked to my local motor spares factor and they have an agreement with a mechanic that overhauls engines. Probably get the work done in the new year.
Also asked about hardened valve seats and he can farm that work out, but is it worth the extra cost? At the moment just adding lead substitute - any suggestions?

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JoshWard
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by JoshWard » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:27 pm

Lead additive is just pouring money away. There's at least one A series Marina with north of 200k miles on the clock which has never seen additive and no sign of valve seat recession. If you're worried it's probably cheaper in the long run to have hardened seats fitted than to keep buying additive.
Club archivist/chief anorak
1936 Ford Model Y- On loan from the CCLP
1962 Morris Traveller
1967 Triumph Herald
1971 1.3 DL Coupe (VRU362J)
1971 1.3 SDL Coupe (JGC240K)
1971 1.3 SDL Saloon (OVW292K)
1971 1.8 SDL Coupe (MCU274K)
1980 Ital 1.3 HL (NPB34W)

david painter
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by david painter » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:26 am

The Cast Iron valve seat will become aged hardened with lead memory from years of using leaded petrol. Some reports suggest this memory will last 40 000 miles, however if the valves are removed and the seats reground this lead memory is lost. I personally ran a 1.0 Metro in the late 90's on Unleaded fuel for over 20 000 miles with the occasional tank of 4 star fuel without any valve problems. My 1300 coupe took me around France in 2018 a lot of it on Motorways and is still running now on the original valve seats. In my opinion while everything is working leave well alone, if however, in your case where it sounds like you need a rebore and pistons having the head machined and hardened valve seats fitted would be a relatively small cost of a proper engine rebuild. If you go down the route of a cheap rings only job i would leave well alone.
Dave

Mandator
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by Mandator » Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:55 am

Advice on some other fora/forums is that lead substitute also improves running by reducing pinking, (Raising the octane levels?) and thereby reduces engine wear. Are they talking ballcocks :-D

david painter
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by david painter » Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:11 am

Pinking or detonation as it is sometimes known by is a rattle from engine on acceleration. This usually occurs in the 2000RPM region, its primary cause is over advanced ignition timing. Whilst the pinking is not directly related to Unleaded fuel it is related to the Octane level of the fuel. the old 4 star petrol was 97-98 octane whereas the Modern Standard Unleaded is 95 Octane and Super Unleaded is 98 Octane. The amount of ignition advance that can be run depends a lot on the Octane rating of the fuel within reason you want to run as much ignition advance as possible without pinking as this produces the best power ( modern cars have knock sensors to retard the ignition so the engine can always be run to the point of pinking when under full load to produce the best power) on old engines designed to run on star fuel generally the ignition timing has to be retarded 2-3 degrees to stop pinking there by reducing the power output slightly. Long term pinking can cause engine damage melted pistons etc this would rarely happen on a normally driven road engine usually the annoying rattle most people ease off the throttle when it occurs. Lead substitute will improve running if it includes an Octane Booster Lead was originally added to petrol to increase Octane and reduce valve wear, it was first used in aero engines is WW2 and started to filter into road fuel after the war as we went from side valve to OHV engines and power outputs increased.
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JoshWard
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by JoshWard » Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:33 am

It's also worth saying not all lead substitute uses an octane booster. For example, I am sure Castrol do two versions of 'Valvemaster', one with and one without. As David says, timing needs to be adjusted according to the fuel you use and because modern fuels are different invariably the factory timing settings can now be meaningless. You could use an additive with octane booster, or you could just use super unleaded fuel which as David says is higher octane. It would be interesting to work out which one costs less.
Club archivist/chief anorak
1936 Ford Model Y- On loan from the CCLP
1962 Morris Traveller
1967 Triumph Herald
1971 1.3 DL Coupe (VRU362J)
1971 1.3 SDL Coupe (JGC240K)
1971 1.3 SDL Saloon (OVW292K)
1971 1.8 SDL Coupe (MCU274K)
1980 Ital 1.3 HL (NPB34W)

Mandator
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Re: 1300 A Series Engine

Post by Mandator » Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:12 am

JoshWard wrote: Sat Nov 19, 2022 7:33 am It's also worth saying not all lead substitute uses an octane booster. For example, I am sure Castrol do two versions of 'Valvemaster', one with and one without. As David says, timing needs to be adjusted according to the fuel you use and because modern fuels are different invariably the factory timing settings can now be meaningless. You could use an additive with octane booster, or you could just use super unleaded fuel which as David says is higher octane. It would be interesting to work out which one costs less.
At the moment am using "Super Unleaded" and Lead substitute, primarily to reduce valve wear but will probably go for a more permanent solution when the engine is examined. Ultimately will all depend on how much it is going to cost to have the engine refurbished/repaired. Am on a bit of a limited budget!!! :frown:

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